An Intense, Searching Conversation With Amjad Iraqi

<p>Before there can be any kind of stable coexistence of people in Israel and Palestine, there will have to be a stable coexistence of narratives. And that’s what we’ll be attempting this week on the show: to look at both the present and the past through Israeli and Palestinian perspectives. The point is not to choose between them. The point is to really listen to them. Even — especially — when what’s being said is hard for us to hear.</p><p>Our first episode is with Amjad Iraqi, a senior editor at +972 magazine and a policy analyst at the Al-Shabaka think tank. We discuss the history of Gaza and its role within broader Palestinian politics, the way Hamas and the Israeli government under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reached a “violent equilibrium,” why Palestinians feel “duped” by the international community, what Hamas thought it could achieve with its attack, whether Israeli security and Palestinian liberty can coexist, Iraqi’s skepticism over peace resolutions that rely on statehood and nationalism, how his own identity as a Palestinian citizen of Israel offers a glimpse at where coexistence can begin and much more.</p><p>Mentioned:</p><p><a href="https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781627797108/theonlylanguagetheyunderstand" target="_blank">The Only Language They Understand</a> by Nathan Thrall</p><p>Book Recommendations</p><p><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/227917/east-west-street-by-philippe-sands/#:~:text=East%20West%20Street%20by%20Philippe,9780525433729%20%7C%20PenguinRandomHouse.com%3A%20Books" target="_blank">East West Street</a> by Philippe Sands</p><p><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/159783/orientalism-by-edward-w-said/" target="_blank">Orientalism</a> by Edward Said</p><p><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/7753/the-fire-next-time-by-james-baldwin/" target="_blank">The Fire Next Time</a> by James Baldwin</p><p>Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.</p><p>You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The E